The problem with modern beta is its biggest strength; beta versions now must be stable. You think grandma in Ohio is going to care why Oldster v1.0b crashes her computer? No, and neither will my 14 year old sister. So, ok, great, from now on we only release betas that are fundamentally ready for wide release. But, uh, that's gamma. In other words, we now basically go from alpha to finished product with no real middle ground. I thought the point of beta was to get help with admittedly imperfect code from a large group of people that you picked and would prepare the software for general release, but as you point out Rands this is certainly no longer the Way It Works. I wonder if this has anything to do with the general state of bugginess lack of security in programming. Or maybe this is just golden age of software whining, and everything's just as stable as it ever was.